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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:14 am
by btayloragent
Will u love into maybe adding a arpegiator next. I think that would be great. Cause this is just my fav synth and i love arps......O and will u ever do contest for free giveaways or somethan....Cause i love love this synth and would to to have it. But im really trapped for cash and it suxs....But i love this synth and surprising get the idea of it better than any other synth ive ever used.....But i will return that favor by introducing it to others that are unware of it still.....

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:26 pm
by Daven
Something to consider definitely. I have never figured out how to use arp synth features effectively (over and above just programming the notes), so maybe help me understand the purpose - what makes a useful arpeggiator?

I look forward to the day where I don't have to eat and pay rent, but until then no freebies, sorry.

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:07 pm
by btayloragent
Ok thanks..But the arp feature basically helps to make very melodic and interesting cords and melodies and fills for most electronic artist and producers. I recently started noticing that...thats what was the most interesting parts of songs i like and thought they were mostly played parts...but they were made using Arps...mostly with the tone 2 firebird which is a arp beast... It helps as a pattern sequencer/step sequencer within the plugin so u wont have to use the daws factory arp thus saving cpu.....

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:09 pm
by btayloragent
Plus the Arp can be use as an effect when creating patches and presets ....i seen alot of good beat makers use methods with the arp as an effect then a sequencer also

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:40 am
by zenwarlord
Hey basically the use of synth arping is mixed in with synth internal sequencing, relative to the modulating, ADSR vs complex enveloping and looping functions within synths (that creatively have been freed from MIDI Note On and Note Off) , so these flexibilities would need to be thought about too.

I believe there is a post on the forum about Cycles handling of looping and release envelopes and that may tie into this question as well. (From my perspective this design of the amp envelope may improve this: Release a key, and hear no pop, the way it would be if the synth were playing (or creating on the fly) a well-defined looping sound, that also releases cleanly. I think the aforementioned post had good ideas)

IMHO the reason Arping with MIDI is very different than using synth arps, is that within a synth, free of MIDI constraints, there can be dissassociation between the MIDI note, as interpreted by the synth, and the various modulatiobs of the synth, including amplitude modulation of course. Independence is a better word than dissassociation.

This means that it really depends on how much advantage a synth design can take of this. For instance, a modulation of amplitude envelooe can flow over several notes rather than be cut off by the onset of the new arp note, whereas with MIDI notes one generally can't implement the synth response this flexibly., as the user expects of MIDI the same thing each time.

I gather that a lot of musical styles rely on this type of organic flow, mafe possible by synth arping.

It is then picked up also by sampke patches that contain these synth arps, that are time shifted, stretched, rex or acidized or some such. But this is why users go around paying a lot of money for fresh Nexus sounds, in part, because it is difficult without the right software, to create the original, personally created synth arps that are desired.

With the arp fumction of a good synth, the flexibility is there so that the "world" of "discretely pitched notes" can blend or overlap a world of enveloping of various sorts. Imagine if Amaranth Cycke could continue to evolve while different "key positions" were triggered within Amaranth Cycle itself?

Not to be confused with MIDI arping, such as with Kirnu Cream, and to some extent Cthulhu. Kirnu Cream is used for taking the presses of MIDI keys, and having all manner of sequences and chord arps result. Well, at least this was my thought.

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:00 am
by zenwarlord
I did some more research. I was right that step sequencers and arpeggiators have become blurred as a term, being that the functions often are housed together, with arps transposable in +/- and step sequencers now capable of arping if mulriple notes are held, etc. On the other hand nothing easily locatable on the web is going to confirm the differences in benefit between MIDI arpeggiators/step sequencers like Kirnu Cream, and arpeggiators within sequencers.

Here are a few exanples of internal possibilities.

1) Avoid the MIDI retrigger of the attack envelope within the synth. (This is possibly not the case in terms of the software I use a lot, but Arturia emulations come to mind.

2) Allow the timing and amplitude groove to be controllable in realtime.

3) Most obviously, it is a bit different to perform in hardware, or properly and accurately emulate in software, analog processes like using two summed physical waveforms to modulate the filter or amplitude or something, than to rely on Midi CC's. Gating is a bit easier. But a nice flowing effect is had by maintaining continuity of such controlled, intuitive or haphazzard organic synth signal path modulations, rather than what I may as well term CC MIDulations.

But... arppegiator/step seq's have optional retriggering of the amp envelope and or modulation cycle with every repeat. Turn this off or on to get polyrhymic or more sterile cycling of modulation.

Again, I am really a newbie on the topic here, but after using some of the better intetnal step sequencer/arpeggiators, IMHO...

EDIT - The difference between what is sometimes called Poly, Mono, Legato 1, Legato 2, etc. comes into play. An implementation of a synth has to operate in one of these ways, or similar. Whereas a hardware synth or emulation of one can create "pitched material" that is not necessarily definable within a subset of the 128 MIDI pitches; and its "envelopes" can be directly initiated by a user as though from a MIDI key press, but they can also be transients that happen by "accident" (sounding like envelopes in that they have a as a result of a stream of signals, but not as well defined as the generated envelopes in wavetable synths).

I would love to see a description of typical old school hardware synth arping in terms of its electonics and the resulting sound effects. I'm not so clear on how they work, and whether there is a whole variety out there or most are very similar in design.

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:44 pm
by LeonKin
How do you allow the timing and amplitude groove to be controllable in real time btw?

Re: arpegiator

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:22 am
by zenwarlord
By amplitude Groove I mean that you can layer signals into an analog synth and get a groove out of it, because the timing of pulses combines in different ways. This would not be difficult to emulate in a softsynth that would generate its own data; it could use MIDI as GUI input from a user or sequencer, and go from there. Controlling timing in MIDI is just controlling tempo I guess. But think of it from the perspective of an analog synth again. You can have various inputs that are calculated so as to operate along consistent or varying cycle rates, that can be combined.

Again, I'm new to thinking about this. I don't want to leave the impression that I have anything formulated. I was reading the earlier thoughts I posted above, and I wasn't clear in my descriptions. There were some soft synths though that I played with that had a more analog feel . For example the stuff by Arturia that models analog circuitry, and then there are more MIDI based ones.